Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/09/2001 01:18 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 187 - VANDALISM OF CEMETERIES & GRAVES                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0440                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  announced that  the next  order of business  would                                                              
be  HOUSE BILL  NO.  187, "An  Act  relating  to the  destruction,                                                              
desecration, and vandalism of cemeteries and graves."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0480                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LORI  L. BACKES,  Staff  to  Representative Jim  Whitaker,  Alaska                                                              
State  Legislature, presented  HB 187  on behalf  of the  sponsor,                                                              
Representative  Whitaker.    She   explained  that  under  current                                                              
Alaska  statutes, there  are no  provisions relating  specifically                                                              
to  the  vandalism   or  desecration  of  modern   cemeteries  and                                                              
memorials.   One legal  opinion is that  they are protected  under                                                              
the Alaska  Historic Preservation  Act; however,  persons  who are                                                              
charged  with   the  maintenance   and  care  of   cemeteries  are                                                              
unconvinced  that   AS  41.35.200   provides  for  the   penalties                                                              
necessary  to   protect  the  safety   and  dignity   of  Alaska's                                                              
cemeteries and  memorials from theft,  vandalism, and  other forms                                                              
of  desecration.    Acts of  vandalism  are  currently  punishable                                                              
under statutes  that relate to  criminal mischief, but  the degree                                                              
of  crime centers  around the  monetary  value of  the damage  and                                                              
does not recognize  the personal insult and emotional  injury that                                                              
is  suffered by  a family,  community, or  tribe when  cemeteries,                                                              
burial sites,  or memorials are  vandalized.  Ms.  Backes conveyed                                                              
that  HB  187 clearly  states  that  it  is  a crime  of  criminal                                                              
mischief in  the second degree if  a person "defaces,  damages, or                                                              
desecrates a  cemetery or the  contents of  a cemetery or  a tomb,                                                              
grave,  or memorial  regardless  of whether  the  tomb, grave,  or                                                              
memorial is  in a cemetery or  ... appears to be  abandoned, lost,                                                              
or neglected".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  noted that language  in HB 187  makes an                                                              
exception  for   defacing,  damaging,  desecrating,   or  removing                                                              
contents, if  the action  is consistent with  law.   He envisioned                                                              
that law  enforcement may need to  engage in these types  of acts,                                                              
or  that   damage  might   be  done  during   the  course   of  an                                                              
archeological exhibition.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS BACKES  explained that those  activities are already  protected                                                              
by federal  law, as  well as by  the Alaska Historic  Preservation                                                              
Act.   However, she added,  if, for example,  a state worker  or a                                                              
cemetery worker  needs to  excavate a  grave, remove a  headstone,                                                              
or  perform some  other act  that's  within his/her  duty, HB  187                                                              
adds an affirmative defense.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG noted  that he  has  concerns about  archeological                                                              
"digs,"  and that  the university  has suggested  an amendment  to                                                              
add "or  state permit" in  order to address  that point.   He then                                                              
asked whether "headstone  or marker rubbings" caused  damage or if                                                              
they would be considered a violation.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. BACKES  acknowledged that this  point had not  been considered                                                              
when the  research on HB  187 was being done.   She said  that she                                                              
would find it  difficult to think that "headstone  rubbings" would                                                              
cause damage  to the site or cause  insult to the family,  but she                                                              
noted that  some people might find  it offensive.  She  added that                                                              
HB 187 does not specifically address this issue.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0770                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT  SAM,  Cemetery  Caretaker,  explained  that  he  has  been                                                              
involved  with the  restoration, preservation,  and protection  of                                                              
cemeteries, sacred  sites, historic  sites, and cultural  heritage                                                              
sites in  different parts of Alaska  for the last 15  years, since                                                              
1986.   He added that  in 1988 he  received the "Alaska  Volunteer                                                              
of  the   Year"  award;   he  also   has  received  national   and                                                              
international  recognition  over the  years  for performing  these                                                              
services.    He  said  that  over the  years  he  has  dealt  with                                                              
vandalism,  desecration, and grave  robbing.   He added  that even                                                              
headstone rubbing  can cause  damage.   He provided the  committee                                                              
with  photographs of  desecrated  sites.   Cemeteries are  popular                                                              
places for people  to hold parties and drink  alcohol, he informed                                                              
the  committee.     Mr.  Sam  went  on  to  explain   that  marble                                                              
headstones  featuring angels  are  used primarily  for  children's                                                              
graves,  and that  it is  very popular  among youth  to knock  the                                                              
heads and wings off these [angel headstones].                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SAM noted  that it  is only  a few  people who  do damage  to                                                              
these sites.   He recounted a  recent incident of vandalism:   the                                                              
perpetrators pushed  the headstones over and then  chipped out the                                                              
names of  the deceased,  and in some  cases actually  smashed many                                                              
of the older  headstones into little  pieces.  Mr. Sam  noted that                                                              
the  hardest  part of  his  job  as  a caretaker  is  calling  the                                                              
families  and informing  them that  their family  plots have  been                                                              
desecrated; many  families become victims  of this type  of abuse.                                                              
On  another point,  Mr.  Sam explained  that  there  is a  growing                                                              
market for headstones,  particularly the ones with  Alaskan Native                                                              
symbols  on  them.    He remarked  that  in  Alaska,  it  is  very                                                              
apparent that  some people still believe  it is OK to  desecrate a                                                              
cemetery.  He added  that there is very little  law that addresses                                                              
this type  desecration; hence the  general public feels  that it's                                                              
OK to  continue this  type of  behavior.   Even when incidents  of                                                              
vandalism are  reported to  the police, the  law is so  vague that                                                              
nothing is done.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1156                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SAM reported  that cemeteries in Alaska are  disappearing on a                                                              
daily basis  because they  are not  protected.   He said  that the                                                              
time has come  for the State of  Alaska to address this  issue and                                                              
provide  protection of  these sacred  sites.   All cemeteries  are                                                              
being  vandalized,  he  said,  not just  Native  sites;  many  are                                                              
simply disappearing,  and it  is very  important to protect  those                                                              
that are  left.  A lot  of families feel  that they are at  a loss                                                              
and  that  they have  no  one  to turn  to,  he  added.   Mr.  Sam                                                              
informed  the committee  that he  has taken  the preservation  and                                                              
protection  of these  sites on  as a  lifelong project.   He  also                                                              
mentioned  that he  had recently  finished  up a  project for  the                                                              
Department  of Transportation  and Public  Facilities (DOT&PF)  to                                                              
restore a  mausoleum in  Sitka; he'd  identified and returned  138                                                              
bodies back  to their home  communities and helped  re-inter them.                                                              
However,  the problem  with doing  this,  he said,  is that  these                                                              
bodies have  been placed in unprotected  sites, so there  is great                                                              
potential  that  these sites  will  be vandalized  and  destroyed.                                                              
Again, he  said that  the time  has come  to protect "our"  burial                                                              
sites.  He concluded by saying that he is in support of HB 187.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SAM,  in  response  to  questions,   explained  that  rubbing                                                              
headstones  for genealogical  purposes  can do  damage; if  rubbed                                                              
too hard, the stone  - even marble - can deteriorate,  and in some                                                              
cases the headstones can topple easily if care isn't taken.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG asked  if places  such  as the  memorial house  in                                                              
Eklutna  Village  would  be  included   under  the  definition  of                                                              
"memorial" or "tomb" in HB 187.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SAM explained  that they  are considered  to be  "memorials,"                                                              
and the  one in  Eklutna Village  is a  Russian Orthodox  cemetery                                                              
that  has blended  the  best  of both  worlds:   the  people  have                                                              
placed traditional  [Native]  memorials there  as well as  church-                                                              
related memorials.   He said  that a lot  of families  have yearly                                                              
ceremonies  at these  places,  and they  will  bring the  deceased                                                              
his/her  favorite  food  or  a much-cherished  object  such  as  a                                                              
sewing machine,  hunting rifle, or  rocking chair and place  it on                                                              
the  gravesite.   He offered  that  "memorial" can  have a  rather                                                              
broad definition.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. SAM,  in response to  a question, said  that he did  not think                                                              
rubbing  should be  illegal.   He  said he  feels  that more  good                                                              
people need  to be attracted to  cemeteries in order  to cultivate                                                              
the desire  to preserve and protect  these sites.   Offering tours                                                              
and allowing  rubbings are  ways to  educate the  public.   One of                                                              
the methods he uses  is to take the youth in  his community to the                                                              
cemetery and  show them the burial  sites of their  relatives, and                                                              
in this  way encourage them to  protect and restore  these places;                                                              
they  now have  picnics there,  and people  come and  pick up  the                                                              
trash, and  in many other ways  the community of Sitka  has "taken                                                              
ownership" of  the cemetery.   He said  that to him,  a sign  of a                                                              
healthy community is a well-maintained and clean cemetery.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1620                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  inquired whether Mr. Sam knew  the outcome of                                                              
the  situation in  the Barrow  cemetery, where  ocean erosion  had                                                              
exposed some  old graves  with well-preserved  remains.   He noted                                                              
that there  is a section  in HB 187  that says "authorized  by law                                                              
to engage in the  conduct"; he asked whether there  is anything in                                                              
law  that  authorizes  the  type of  research  engendered  by  the                                                              
Barrow situation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   ROKEBERG  again   mentioned   the  forthcoming   amendment                                                              
intended to expand authorizations to include state permits.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SAM remarked  that with  the federal  Native American  Graves                                                              
Protection  and Repatriation  Act, if  there is  a gravesite  that                                                              
needs to  be moved, and  if even one  family member  objects, then                                                              
federal law  will back  the family member's  decision.   He added,                                                              
however, that  over the years he  has had the opportunity  to work                                                              
with state and  federal agencies in moving graves  in a respectful                                                              
and dignified manner.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1767                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ELMER  MAKUA, Cemetery  Caretaker,  Tongass Tribe,  noted that  he                                                              
has  been   actively  managing   and  repairing   damage   to  the                                                              
gravesites on the  north point of Pennock [Island]  in addition to                                                              
other gravesite  areas.  He added  that he faces  problems similar                                                              
to those  spoken  of by Mr.  Sam, and  that one  of the  gravesite                                                              
areas  that he  manages  is located  on an  island  that has  been                                                              
subdivided  by the  local [Ketchikan]  government.   He  explained                                                              
that  the  desecration  to  these  sites  comes  in  the  form  of                                                              
encroachments  from  developments;  folks  store their  lumber  at                                                              
these sites,  build fences  across them,  or keep their  equipment                                                              
in  those  areas.    These acts  of  desecration  are  being  done                                                              
"knowingly," he  added, and when the perpetrators  are confronted,                                                              
they  become  very  defensive.     When  the  State  Troopers  are                                                              
approached  for  assistance, they  are  not  able to  provide  any                                                              
help;  they  don't  know  what  to do,  and  neither  do  the  FBI                                                              
officials when they are asked to help.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MAKUA said  that his organization has contemplated  putting up                                                              
fences  to protect  these areas,  but he  added that  it would  be                                                              
preferable to keep  the areas open so that, as  Mr. Sam suggested,                                                              
people could be  encouraged to take an interest  in the historical                                                              
significance of the  sites.  He remarked that  although many sites                                                              
are  protected  under  the  federal laws,  there  is  still  great                                                              
concern for  those sites that are  located close to  Ketchikan and                                                              
which  are  being  desecrated  and searched  for  artifacts.    He                                                              
opined that the  laws in place are  not as strong as  they need to                                                              
be in order to deter people from this behavior.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG noted  that inclusion  of the  language in  HB 187                                                              
that  refers to  sites that  appear  to be  abandoned should  help                                                              
motivate law enforcement officers to protect these sites.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1957                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAVID   JACOBY,  Public   Works  Director,   City  of   Fairbanks,                                                              
testified  via teleconference  and  said in  his  area, they  also                                                              
face  the  problem  of  desecration  caused  by  people  with  "4-                                                              
wheelers"  using the  cemetery  as "part  of  their playground"  -                                                              
taking  out  headstones,  digging  holes in  graves,  or  removing                                                              
funerary  objects such  as the angels  that Mr.  Sam referred  to.                                                              
Vandalism  of  this   sort  creates  problems  for   him  and  his                                                              
employees, he  explained, not the  least of which  includes having                                                              
to inform the family  members that they must come  to the cemetery                                                              
and catalogue  their losses.  These  families experience a  lot of                                                              
emotional  distress because  of this type  of crime,  particularly                                                              
when the  gravesite belongs to  a child.   The law needs to  be in                                                              
place,  he stated,  not  so much  as a  prosecution  tool, but  as                                                              
protection  and deterrence  against  this type  of  behavior.   On                                                              
another  point, he  said that during  the winter  in Fairbanks,  a                                                              
crypt is  used to store  deceased people  until the  ground thaws,                                                              
and  some people  try to  break in  (one person  actually got  the                                                              
doors off) to  remove the caskets as  a joke.  This  also is quite                                                              
an emotional  strain on  the family,  he added,  as well  as being                                                              
costly for the  city to try to  maintain a cemetery that  is not a                                                              
"perpetual care cemetery."   He closed by offering  support for HB
187.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2083                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BLAIR  McCUNE,  Deputy  Director, Public  Defender  Agency  (PDA),                                                              
Department  of Administration,  testified  via teleconference  and                                                              
said  that  [the  PDA's]  concern  about  HB 187  is  that  it  is                                                              
invariably  a class  C  felony for  doing  any  amount of  damage,                                                              
desecration,  or  defacement.    In light  of  the  testimony,  he                                                              
added,  this behavior  is certainly  a serious  problem, but  [the                                                              
PDA] has  hope that  there would be  some way to  draft HB  187 so                                                              
that  if there  is only  minor defacement,  or  minor damage,  the                                                              
younger people who  are misguided and do this type  of thing don't                                                              
end up, invariably, with a felony.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN,  on a different  point, brought  attention to                                                              
the  language  on  page  2,  lines  7  and  11,  which  refers  to                                                              
abandoned,  lost, or  neglected  sites.   He  asked  how a  person                                                              
would be able  to "knowingly" commit a felony  against a gravesite                                                              
that is  lost; the culpability question  comes to mind,  he added,                                                              
when the  gravesite is lost  and a person  buys the property.   He                                                              
remarked  that  he   has  concern  with  creating   a  felony  for                                                              
something that is lost.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  said he is  assuming that  "lost" means a  loss of                                                              
title or domain over the actual real property or grounds.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES  pointed  out  that the  language  says  "or                                                              
memorial  appears  to  be  abandoned,  lost,  or  neglected";  she                                                              
offered if  a site  is covered over  with weeds  and trees  and it                                                              
looks as though  no one has been there recently,  then it would be                                                              
easy to  deduce that  the site  could be  an "abandoned,  lost, or                                                              
neglected" site.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  commented that given Alaska's  history, there                                                              
are  probably people  buried all  over  Alaska and  no one  really                                                              
knows  where  the remains  are.    If a  person  buys  a piece  of                                                              
property with  no visible sign that  a "cemetery, tomb,  grave, or                                                              
memorial" is  located on it, and  the owner, during the  course of                                                              
construction or  development, uncovers  the site, then  it becomes                                                              
a  felony to  continue  work on  the  area.   Representative  Ogan                                                              
opined  that  it  could  result  in  a  situation  of  "regulatory                                                              
taking."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BACKES, with  regard  to  Representative Ogan's  point,  said                                                              
that the  key words in  HB 187 are  "appears to be",  because this                                                              
phrase has  been used as  a defense in the  past - that  it looked                                                              
as though  it were neglected  and no one  cared anymore,  and thus                                                              
it was all right  to remove things from the site  or damage things                                                              
at  the site.   To  address Representative  Ogan's point  further,                                                              
she  explained that  when someone  buys  a piece  of property  and                                                              
then  later finds  a grave  on that  property that  appears to  be                                                              
abandoned,  lost, or  neglected, the  person can  obtain a  permit                                                              
from the  state to deal with  that situation if, for  example, the                                                              
site  needs to  be  moved or  protected.   Therefore,  although  a                                                              
person does  need to  go through  the state's permitting  process,                                                              
there  is statutory  recourse for  the  homeowner or  construction                                                              
company  if  the property  purchased  contains  a  burial/memorial                                                              
site.   She  added that  there  are also  federal  laws that  deal                                                              
with,  particularly, historic  and archeological  types of  burial                                                              
sites.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2310                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG,  returning  to  Mr. McCune's  point,  asked  what                                                              
other  statutes are  available  for police  with  regard to  those                                                              
people  who desecrate  cemeteries, if  the crime  is not  criminal                                                              
mischief in the  second degree and [the amount of  damage] is less                                                              
than $500.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  McCUNE   responded   that  the  trespass   laws  are   always                                                              
available,   and   that  generally,   according   to   [statutory]                                                              
valuations,  [damage]  over $500  is  a felony;  [damage]  between                                                              
$500 and $50 is  a class A misdemeanor; and [damage]  under $50 is                                                              
a class B misdemeanor.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  added  that charging  someone  for  "an                                                              
attempt" to  commit the crime  is one way  of lowering  the charge                                                              
one level.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES, although she  acknowledged that  some types                                                              
of  damage  to these  sites  could  be  considered  insignificant,                                                              
surmised that  the main focus  of HB 187  is to address  the cases                                                              
of severe  damage,  as was recounted  by the  testifiers,  most of                                                              
which would amount to more than $500 worth of damage.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  mentioned   that  the  monetary  limits                                                              
should be revisited.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. BACKES  added that a monetary  value cannot be  determined for                                                              
the emotional  damage done to  a family and  the insult done  to a                                                              
person's memory through these acts of vandalism and desecration.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  suggested that  perhaps the $500  limit could                                                              
be  removed from  HB 187  and the  offense kept  at a  misdemeanor                                                              
level.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG opined  that this  would be a  problem because  HB
187 is  drafted to fit within  the criminal mischief  statute, and                                                              
these acts  are simply  being added  to what constitutes  criminal                                                              
mischief in the second degree.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2448                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN suggested  that some  sort of penalty  should                                                              
be considered  for those  people who  do less  than $500  worth of                                                              
damage because  even seemingly  insignificant  acts of damage  can                                                              
do emotional harm to the family.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES opined  that  the purpose  of HB  187 is  to                                                              
stop  people   from  committing   these  acts  of   vandalism  and                                                              
desecration to begin  with, not necessarily to  collect money from                                                              
perpetrators or put  them in jail after the damage  has been done.                                                              
For  this reason,  if  the penalty  is too  small,  she added,  it                                                              
won't make any difference at all - the behavior will continue.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  commented that most  of the people  doing the                                                              
damage  probably  won't  know  that [this  type  of  behavior]  is                                                              
against the law.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   ROKEBERG  mentioned   that   there  might   also  be   the                                                              
possibility of  dropping the level  of offense down to  the "third                                                              
and fourth degree," if the committee wishes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-60, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2486                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. BACKES remarked  that she had not specifically  considered the                                                              
penalties when  drafting HB 187,  but she added that  applying the                                                              
penalties associated with  a class C felony - up  to five years in                                                              
jail  and  a  $50,000  fine  -  is  not  unheard  of  for  similar                                                              
situations in other states.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  remarked that he understood  the concern                                                              
about  being  too  harsh  on youth  who  are  simply  doing  "dumb                                                              
things," and  he raised the point  that there is  always suspended                                                              
imposition of sentence  (SIS) available for  first-time offenders.                                                              
But, he  added, it seems  to him that  a felony is  appropriate in                                                              
this area,  and he opined  that the $500  threshold is  low enough                                                              
that it will be  reached in most instances.  In  addition, he said                                                              
he has confidence  that prosecutors will exercise  discretion when                                                              
the conduct is de  minimis, and not charge as a  felony but charge                                                              
as  a misdemeanor  instead.    He went  on  to explain  that  just                                                              
because  a prosecutor  has  the charge  of  felony desecration  of                                                              
cemetery  available, it  does not  preclude  the prosecutor  from,                                                              
for example,  charging as criminal  mischief in the  fourth degree                                                              
for stealing the park bench that's next to the gravestone.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  said the committee  believes that  prosecutors can                                                              
use the "lesser included forms of mischief."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  confirmed  this interpretation  of  the                                                              
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2371                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG, after  closing public testimony on HB  187, made a                                                              
motion  to  adopt  Amendment  1,  which  would  insert  "or  state                                                              
permit" after  "law" on page 2,  line 18, such that it  would then                                                              
read  "authorized  by  law  or  state  permit  to  engage  in  the                                                              
conduct."  He  explained that this change has  been recommended by                                                              
the  University  of  Alaska,  and  would  expand  the  affirmative                                                              
defense provision to include activity at "archeological digs."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ asked  what authority  the state  has to                                                              
engage in this conduct.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2320                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WENDY   REDMAN,   Vice   President   for   University   Relations,                                                              
University  of Alaska, explained  that federal  law requires  that                                                              
the  state issue  permits for  any  kind of  activity relating  to                                                              
excavation,  identification,  and   reclamation  of  any  kind  of                                                              
gravesites.    Thus, when  roads  are  being  laid or  erosion  is                                                              
taking place  in certain  areas, the  archeological department  of                                                              
the  university   is  contacted   and  permits   are  issued   for                                                              
university people  to work with local authorities  on preservation                                                              
and  repatriation  activities.    She  said  that  although  local                                                              
tribal authorities  could object to the activities and  put a stop                                                              
to   the  permit,   there   have  not   been   any  conflicts   or                                                              
disagreements with  tribal entities or communities  for many, many                                                              
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. BACKES  added that the  Department of Natural  Resources (DNR)                                                              
is responsible for issuing these permits.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2230                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  asked  whether   there  were  any  objections  to                                                              
Amendment 1.  There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2218                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES  moved to report  HB 187, as amended,  out of                                                              
committee  with individual  recommendations  and the  accompanying                                                              
fiscal  notes.    There being  no  objection,  CSHB  187(JUD)  was                                                              
reported from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                           

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